Kindergarten Hell: Mom Rants About Lack of Supervision

From Karebear:

I have come to vent a little bit to you all. It's not about retail persay, but still been treated like crap over the whole thing. And there is some sort of "customer" interaction, even though I am not buying anything. 

So what has me all flustered and frustrated?

My son's school. He just started kindergarten, and since for pre-school he went to the daycare that did half day preschool other half daycare, this is my first time dealing with a public school as a parent. As a child, I went to a different public school in a different town, so this is my first time dealing with this town's public school system. 

My issue is with the way the kids are brought to school and before they go into their classrooms. Parents aren't allowed into the building most of the time, so we are forced to bring our children to line up outside. This wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for several reasons. 

There is  no adult supervision. Sure, some parents, like myself, may stay until the kids have gone in, but what little kid in their right mind is going to listen to a stranger? Kids start lining up around 8:40 and are forced to stay outside, with zero shade, until 9:05. And that's if their teachers come out right away to collect them. Usually about 3-5 parents there and the school is K-5th grade, with multiple classes of each grade. 24 students in my son's class alone. It's very overwhelming to make sure no one is killing anyone...and is that really my responsibility? 

I have seen basketballs thrown at other kids' heads. Pebbles, rocks, SCISSORS. I have tried stopping as much as I can, but seriously, some of these kids are pretty big and mean. I get alot of "You're not my mom or teacher, so shove off." I have tried talking to teachers about it, and just get the reply they will take care of it, and the next day they are at it again. 

Not only do they throw things, but they hit, punch, and shove each other. My son's line is right in between a 2nd grade and a 3rd grade class. So all these kids are looming over my son, who is kind of tall for his age, but not by much. I turned around once to pick up the baby's blanket, and when I turned back around my son had a bloody lip. Turns out the hit wasn't directed for him, but he got in the cross fire and was the one that ended up hurt. Talked to the teacher, but because my son couldn't point out which kid did it for sure, nothing was done. And still no teacher supervision! 

I have tried talking to the school principal, but each time I get a lame, half ass excuse like "He isn't in yet today." I have tried 3 different times, and school has only been in session since 8/20. My mom has told me to go higher up in the school board, but the thing is...the school district hasn't released any information on who is who and their contact details. I try calling the main office and get told to talk to the principal of the school. It's like...what am I suppose to do? Get the media involved? Wait for a kid to get seriously injured or run off and get lost? (Nearly happened yesterday with one of my son's classmates, but I chased him down and returned him to the line.)

Ugh.

Hasn't rained yet while they are all standing out there, thankfully. Though I am sure the next day half the kids will be out sick cause of it. And soooo looking forward to winter with all the snow. Maybe I will move before then and switch schools...

--Karebear

 

 

Comments

[Kristina]

Talk with the other parents out there. hopefully they share your concerns as well, one parent can be blown off, multiple pissed off/concerned parents is a different matter. If you get nowhere with the principal or the school board feel free to go the local news route.

[Versatile Vegetarian]

I would have the media involved NOW!!! There are too many dangers and predators out there to leave kids that young unsupervised! And since when are parents not allowed inside a public school? I don't know where you are, but I've never heard of that in my lifetime.

[Crazy Cashier]

See if you can look up the people in charge of the school district. I would think that information is provided somewhere. Otherwise I would say try to talk to as many parents as you can about this and get as many as you can to come with you to a meeting with the principal or school district head person. Perhaps videotape some of what is going on during the line up time.

[The Last Archimedean]

Findo out where the main office of the school district is, and go there in person. Ask to have a top official hear your concerns. If they try to give you the run around, go straight to the press.

And... document, document, document.

[Raven]

I once climbed through a window and unlocked the door because the school insisted on doing exactly this. Mind you, we were in 8th grade or thereabouts when that happened, but still. It's a ridiculous system.

[Chicajojobe]

Keep searching. The school systems' hierarchy isn't something that can be kept secret. It's public record.

We had a similar issue when I was in kindergarten, and my mom would sit with me in the car until it opened because the school was, I kid you not, across the road from a prison!
However, she did not work so I can see how this might not be an issue for everyone.
They need to just let the kids in...at least inside the building even if the classrooms aren't open yet because the teacher is late for work.

[m.]

Call every news outlet in town. Or at least threaten to.

[LadyBelle]

A public school is still a business, and a principal is still someone holding a job. I agree with document. That includes every single day. When you take your children to school, write down when you get there, approx how many children are present, and how many school officials are present. Write down every incident that happens that day, even if your children are not involved.

While you are doing this, find out if the school has a PTA, PTO, or some other kind of parent organization. The school board should also be holding public meetings during certain times of the month, so find out when those meetings are so that you can attend. The information should be considered public knowledge, so visiting your county court house or the local school district office.

If they continue to block you, then use the magic words, lawyer and lawsuit. When it comes to children's safety, this is not going extreme or hitting low, it might be unnecessary. Call law offices in your area and ask if they have any recommendations for lawyers that deal with areas of the law concerning education or lawsuits against government agencies. Then have the lawyer draft a letter requesting a meeting with the principal and possibly school board members. Tell your lawyer you want this meeting recorded.

Right now they are putting children in danger not only from adults who might wonder by, but also from each other. Don't let it get to a point where a child is hurt or worse before someone threatens child endangerment lawsuits. Also research the laws in your own area. The adults not being allowed in the school is complete bs. If you do not have a criminal record or some other reason they are baring you specifically from entering, and you are not disturbing classes, then they can not prevent you access from your child.

[Nomnom]

Agree with documenting, of course. I would try to get some of the other parents out there together and go in to see the principal in person. School board members are public office holders, that information should be available SOMEWHERE. It may be worth it to go to you know, places where that information is kept, and try to obtain it from there if it isn't available online. Then get your organized group of parents to show up at the school board meeting. After those avenues are exhausted, media and lawsuits.

I was switched to public school in 4th grade, and I remember in the mornings before classes started we would all be lined up on the Blacktop outside - no, no shade or anything. But we did have teacher supervision - I remember our principal and other adults, patrolling the lines, and I don't remember feeling threatened or anything. (Though I was also in 4th grade, not a kindergartener.) I don't remember what we did when it rained, though. We also all went into our classrooms at the same time when school started.

[Framer-Fatal]

My school didn't have adult supervision, but we did have "patrols" who were the sixth-grade kids who would take a test to determine what they should patrol, and then they were evaluated and trained. As a patrol, your job was to uphold all the school rules and ALWAYS get a grown-up if there was any kind of danger or injury EVER. Your kid's school is asking for a lawsuit.

[Future Teacher]

Wow, its schools like this that make people not trust the public school system. The teachers should either be outside with the students before the school opens, or the students should be allowed in the school, even if its just to sit in the hallway outside their classroom, like I had to do in elementary school when the weather was bad. I'm very sure anything that happens to the children while they're on school property, the school's liable. I had a principal who announced to the whole school that we were under their protection from the moment we stepped out our doors to catch the bus until we returned to our homes after school.

On the flip side, as somebody who is currently working on becoming a teacher, I can understand why the teachers don't want to be outside before school starts because they're probably trying to finalize lesson materials for the day. That isn't an excuse for how the students are handled before school. The school needs a better system in place.

Overall, I'm just going to suggest that your school doesn't care about its students. If the reason the teachers aren't outside supervising is because they aren't there yet, and if the principal isn't there before school, they aren't good teachers. I've known teachers who show up to school an hour before classes start. Even the school I'm student teaching at requires all teachers to be in the building for the day no later than fifteen minutes before classes start, and most of them show up even earlier. Forget the principal, go straight to the school board. They're elected. If they don't do something, they risk not getting voted back in.

[The Last Archimedean]

Sounds like you may need to doument and threaten a law suit once you have the eveidence to get the bureaucracy to get off their duff. I had to do that when my older son was being bullied. Went into a meeting with the principal with dated photos of his various injuries and notes about who, what, when and where, and the bully was suspended for the year [since there were 3 months left, that meant he was effectively held back one grade, since there was no way he could pass his classes -- his parents were NOT happy] and policies were changed so there was more teacher supervision at recess, to prevent similar incidents in the future.

[Fingers]

No parents inside the schools is not a new thing here. It's for the safety of all the kids in the school. Being a parent, however, I absolutely hate it. At the last school my spawn went to, you actually had to be buzzed in and it didn't often work. She only went to a half day kindergarten then.

This year, we switched school and she's there full day now. The kids are let into the school forty minutes before school is to 'begin' and the kids are ushered into the cafeteria. I remember it being like this as well when I was a kid. Standing outside.. in lines with absolutely no official supervision? Hell no, if talking to the district and making a stink about it did nothing, I would just put her in another school at that point.

[Bored at the Bookstore]

"Not allowed in the building?" "Not in yet."

Riiiight. I have learned over the years that the bullies in schools aren't only the children. Sometimes it's the administrator, or the teacher. Or even the school secretary. If the principal "isn't in" when school starts (and why not, i would want to know), stand at the reception desk and wait. Or make an appointment and come back. Parents aren't allowed in the school? What, they don't have room moms, aides, tutors, Scout leaders, volunteers? What do they do for assemblies - present their shows to an empty auditorium?

My son had a bully for a teacher in second grade. She would choose one child every year - usually a boy with blond hair and a single-syllable name - and make his life a living hell. I swear it's true, even though it sounds bizarre. My son was her target one whole long year. His work was always too slow, too sloppy, too fast... He was noisy, he sulked, he ran around, he skulked, he acted out, according to her. Thank heaven she went on maternity leave for part of the year - it probably saved his sanity, and mine. I went to the principal, who did _nothing_. The substitute teachers thought the kid was smart, hard-working, and well-behaved.

When he got to fifth grade and a new school, there she was again - she'd traded grades! That time I went straight to the middle-school principal, told him the history, and said I was going straight to the school board if he was placed in her class again. They put him in a class on the far side of the building! Incidentally, the teacher eventually moved to eighth grade and tried her bullying tricks there; the chosen victim simply stood and left the room. "Where are YOU going?" she asked. His answer? "To the office. I don't have to take this crap from anybody." She retired the next year.

Long story - sorry. But it took me a long time to figure out what I should have done for my second-grader... Fight harder; climb the "corporate" ladder until the proper response is elicited - from principal to superintendent to school board to the media. It's hard to be assertive against these people in positions of self-granted power... But remember, you'll be protecting not only your child, but all the rest, too. And if you can get some other parents to assist you in the battle, so much the better. I don't know how big a town you live in, but if you call the superintendent's office, they can give you the power structure. If not there, call Town Hall and ask for a copy of the Town Report, which lists all town committees and employees (there should be a copy on file at the local library, too) or check the newspaper for reports on school board meetings (those are public records and name names). Towns are not run by secret committees - they have to submit to public scrutiny.

[poofy]

As a school administrator myself, this is how you get the Superintendent's (or CEO's) attention. Call the school administration building and tell the secretary/receptionist you're very concerned about the safety of the children at this particular school. Tell them (don't ask) that you will be at 8:00am (or whatever time you like) the day after tomorrow to meet with the Supt. and you will be bringing your lawyer and the local investigative news reporter with you....I guarantee you will get a personal phone call from the Supt. before that meeting time you specified. Schools don't like lawyers and newsmen in their offices....=) It helps if you can provide names of the lawyer and newsman; it makes it much more believable. Just be ready to show up if you don't get a call.

[Jami]

If none of the above works -

Video tape it, send a copy to the police, post the other on YouTube, wait for irate people all over the world to chime in.

[Fellow Slave]

I remember as a 4th grader in a new school district not knowing the morning routine. I wandered down the hall and a teacher found me. She helped me find my teacher's room and explained the kids stayed in the Auditorium/ gym until it was time for the first bell. Then we had from first bell to second bell (about 7 min) to make sure we got to classroom and make sure we go to the bathroom if we needed too. I remember at least a few teachers in there to wrangle us in case something went horribly wrong (they got assigned it as morning duty). Sounds like they could do for something better involving more of a brain then they seem to have.

[Karebear]

Thanks guys. After I wrote this, the next few days I have seen 1 teacher come out to "look around" each day. However, they only come out at 8:55ish, so there is still 15 minutes time when these children are unsupervised. Yesterday it was my son's teacher who came out. Out of all the teachers, she is the one that seems to pay attention the most while it's her "day to half ass supervise." (And apparently there are teacher breakfast days every Friday, so of course none came out to collect their kids until past the time to actually start school.)

I have been standing out there everyday with my son, so some of the students there have come to know me. Mostly little girls who want to come over and coo at my baby, but some of the little boys are nice and come up to say hi. Well, today I had 20 (twenty!) kids come up to me and try to explain what so and so is doing, who is pushing, who is hitting, etc.

I have zero authority to deal out punishment to these kids. I told a teacher of every single incident and she gave me those wide eyed deer eyes. Then stated something needs to be done about supervision. And now there's an Open House on the 6th and believe me, I will be raising a huge fuss.

[photoslave]

If this happened in my hometown, all someone would have to do is bring up the murder that happened in the school's drive when I was in pre-school. It wasn't a kid, but it still shook up the town quite a bit. All I can suggest is to document everything and take it all the way up the ladder to a state official.

[Fortune Cookie]

I cannot even find words. Here in Germany where I am going to be a teacher the teachers are required by law to watch the children, even during their recess. Although I remember the school I went to for my internship the kids wouldn't be let in until shortly before classes, no supervision either. To be fair, though, they were all in middle school and most of them pretty reasonable. There were no supervising teachers. As for elementary school: the teachers were always there at least half an hour early, the classrooms open and the kids were allowed to play together.

TL;DR: It's different in Germany.

Anyway, I agree, raise some hell, lawyers, reporters. Hell, call the cops if they get too violent and scare the shit out of the children and have the teachers arrested for not doing their job.

[Iminhere]

OMG! Why are the kids sooooo early? Our school has 5 minutes supervision before school. Parents are told not to get kids there earlier. Teachers are prepping to teach your kid. If it is too rough to raise your kid and you need more help get a babysitter. Teachers need to teach, parents need to parent.

[Hellbound Alleee]

If a teacher gets no prep time, there's no learning happening. If you worked at, say a restaurant that did children's parties, you need to be in there prepping. The parents can't bring their kids fifteen or a half hour early, leave them there and expect someone will be there to babysit. And if they do, it's not the fault of the restaurant.

[Queer Geek]

Being someone who went into the teaching field, I understand both sides of the fence. The main problem is money. I'm going to speak in regards to U.S. education since that is where I'm from. School districts are alotted a certain amount for the budget in regards to food, facilities, textbooks, supplies, etc. If there is anything else left, then that would be used for part time staffing to supervise morning hour and afterschool playground activities.

Schools given that opportunity have such a safety staff on hand while others, like yours, don't have the luxury. At that point, the school asks for parent volunteers to come in and help supervise the children before class begins. Again this is an agreement made between the principal and the types of programs he/she wants to instill in their school.

From the way it sounds, the principal seems oblivious to their job so I would definitely take this up with the district. Also, please note that many teachers need the time before collecting students to prep. During my time as a teacher, I always made sure I was organized myself so I know how my day was going to go with my students in order for them to be successful.

Understand that teaching is a thankless, difficult, low paying, and underappreciated profession. You are constantly under pressure by the parents, your school district, your state, and your national government to meet the everchanging criteria they want you to meet in order to educate a child (much of which seems to continually lower test scores every year) and bring them to the education level expected of them.

As a teacher there is no rest, your off hours and even your vacation are spent developing ways of getting your students at acadmeic level and if you don't succeed, it's pretty much your job on the line. That is why there is such dissension among the teaching field and many bad teachers trying get tenure and not caring about their students anymore. Sadly, this is what the education system in American has been reduced to.

I don't know if this sentiment is shared with other countries but since I'm going off on a tangent here I want to refocus and advise you to take up the matter with the school board. Again every school district is different and if yours appears less than concerned for the welfare of their students, I would look into other alternatives.

[NC Tony]

That sounds totally backasswards. At my son's middle school (and before at his elementary school) teachers and school officals are outside when the kids are dropped off in the morning (either by their parents or by school bus) to make sure they get inside and to their classrooms. I agree with everyone else. Go with the 3D's, and see about getting the police, a lawyer and the investigative news involved. I know a lot of news programs have one of those "We investigate" deals, where they'll do an investigative report when someone complains to them when they're getting nowhere with the chain of command.

[Jami]

@HA - Back in my day in the distant time of the early 1980s kids were never left unsupervised outside the school. We were to be brought to our classrooms by our parents for the first few days, then expected to make our way. We had time to sit there doing homework until school officially started. Parents were even allowed to stay and visit in the classroom until school started. (Much to my upset sometimes as I didn't finish all of my homework and my mom just would NOT leave.)

Parents and grandparents were encouraged to volunteer to help watch kids when we were not in class. And they had the power to punish us if we did wrong.

This nonsense about the kids not being allowed into the building until a certain time and the parents not allowed to go with their kids is stupid. What moron made that rule? Sounds like there's more than a lack of discipline and "needing to get prepared" going on. Teachers can prepare when students are in the classroom. I've seen it done.

[Karebear]

See, I understand it's weird that children are being dropped off so early. However, most of the kids that are there are the schoolbus children that are dropped off whenever the bus arrives. And at times, it's 8:40 or later. As parents, we were instructed not to drop our kids off any earlier than 8:30am. I guess there is a breakfast program at 8:30, and whenever the kids are done eating, they are let outside to their lines.

In my family, we have all been taught to arrive somewhere early. No one is hardly ever late. And since I live right across from the school, it doesn't take me long to get there. I have tried to take my kid a little later than 8:40, but then I sit there and worry about the other students, even though it's not really my job. I am a natural worrier.

I understand that teachers need to prepare for their classes. However, school doesn't start until 9:05 and I see teachers arrive as early as 6:30am. The school is a decent size school, with many different teachers. Even if half the teachers were out during this time period and taking turns during the week supervising, I would even feel a little better.

[candieaddict]

Sure teachers need to prep, but someone has to be there to watch the kids. That's just how it is.

My elementary school was like this. We lined up in lines on the playground, and waited. Except, there always one teacher per grade to watch us, and that school went from K-6th grade. So really, it's not that the kids are arriving too early. It's that the teachers don't want to bother watching them until school starts.

Even in my other school in a different state, we were regulated to one classroom, or the computer room, and that was it. One teacher for 20-30 kids. Not hard.

[Bank Slave]

When I was in elementary school we also started at 9:05. Every morning when we were dropped off we had one of 2 options. Go to the cafeteria to get breakfast or go sit in the gym on one of the two bleachers assigned to our classroom. The principal, vice principal, gym, music, computer lab teachers were usually the ones watching us and they all rotated. It was very orderly. If you went to breakfast as soon as you were done eating you were dismissed to the gym. If they did have any sort of "teacher breakfast" the teachers must have rotated because we were always fully supervised.

[Queer Geek]

Again, I say that supervision and safety of the students should be monitored by the principal. The principal is basically the company manager and has to forsee every department. What I don't understand is the indifference the principal has in not having someone watching over these kids during early and after hours. Most principals usuallyy go above and beyond but that's rare to find. Obviously, the same attitude is being spread among your principal's faculty if teachers don't know what is going on with their students. I don't if it is possible but are there other schools nearby that you can transfer your child to?

[Skittles]

@Versatile Vegetarian
There are very few dangers out there. What your talking about is a media hype danger. While I feel for anyone who has had to go through the hell of having their child kidnapped, the fact remains that the odds of any kid being kidnapped like you see in the news are less than the odds of the kid being struck by lightning.

The bigger concern is that some of the kids are hitting and throwing things at others and that is a much more realistic danger to be concerned over. However the school is not legally responsible until the official starting of their day, which it sounds like is 9 o'clock. I forget who mentioned it but having some sort of parent supervisor program seems like the best solution to me. I would definitely talk with the principal and the other parents about organizing and defining that.

[Deiseaj]

I live in Ireland and I'm a teacher.... well, a sub, so I have experience of how many different schools here deal with this. Usually the rule is that school starts at x a.m. The teachers are not responsible for your kids until that time (though in many schools they'll be on the yard 10 minutes before). If you choose to leave your kids in the school before that time, it's your problem. I know that sounds harsh if you're dropping your child off five minutes early, but honestly I've been at school 30 minutes early and seen kids getting dropped off then cos the parents are heading to work. And they know well there's no-one in there, cos the main gates locked!!
I've also seen in a lot of school where the younger kids get off an hour earlier, and the parents will insist that someone babysit them til the older kids are done too. that's 5 hours a week that they expect the teachers to work over time, and in a lot of cases 2.5 in the morning too... 7.5 extra hours a week for free... When's all the prep work supposed to get done?

When you look at it like that, you can understand why the teachers are reluctant to pull the extra hours down on themselves, cos if they supervise for 5 minutes every morning this week, it'll be 10 mins next week, and you'll be in the same situation there as we are here within a short time, especially with the price of childcare.

[angie]

It also makes me mad because there is no such thing as overtime pay for teachers, they don't get paid for babysitting those kids or for the prep work they do. I also feel like there might be a ton of miscommunication going on. A lot of my teachers had bus duty in which they would go out a couple of minutes before the buses got there and supervised. This was just a duty and it was rotated around so no one had to do it continuously, perhaps something like that could be put in place. These are elementary students and I would be far more nervous about leaving them alone than the high schoolers I used to deal with.

[hermitknut]

- Parents aren't allowed in the school?

In all the schools I've been to, no non-faculty adult is allowed to just walk in or roam the corridors. They have to go to reception first. Officially, they need a visitor's pass or a faculty member with them, but usually if the receptionist knows they're a parent who's there for a reason (my little Suzy's been throwing up, my Dave got in a fight, whatever) they'd be allowed to go to the classroom alone. I find the idea of parents being allowed into classrooms and corridors normally a really bizarre idea! I don't really know the reason for it, though.

HK

[snoopster]

My son, now in 5th had a royal bitch for a teacher in 3rd grade. I spoke to alot of parents who concurred that she was a mean bitch on a power trip. The summer before he had her, I received a FOUR page letter outlining "acceptable " snacks. Im all for healthy eating...but seriously?!? If a kid did not bring the right snack, she would not only not let them eat it but would make an ass out of the kid all day. My son got to the point where he was afraid to go to school to the point of making himself sick every day. He (by all accounts of teachers past) is a very good very smart boy, although a little shy. One day he came so upset it took me awhile to get out what happened. She called a pop quiz and my son raised his hand and asked politely to sharpen his pencil. This bitch flipped out on him, FLIPPED A DESK OVER, and screamed at him. My husband and I called a meeting between her the principal and the school superintendant. She pretty much just ignored him the rest of the year as they refused to move him to a new class. My daughter is now in third grade and you can bet my hubby and I called, emailed and all but threatened the principal to keep her OUT of that lunatics class.

[Daisy]

Wow. I can't even begin to imagine a school like that. It sounds like some kind of dystopian novel, not real life. At my elementary school, the kids played outside until the bell rang, and each day, 3 or 4 teachers were assigned to supervise, and the rest got prep time or whatever. Most teachers did their prep the night before, or on the weekend, not 10 minutes before class. There is absolutely no reason those kids shouldn't be supervised at EVERY recess.

[Daisy]

Also, I don't understand why they're lining up like cattle. From the comments, I see that seems to happen in a lot of places, so maybe someone can explain it to me. They're kids; shouldn't they be playing on the playground or the soccer field?

[Karebear]

@Queer Geek: There are many different schools in the district. The only way I could transfer my son would require me moving to a different area in town. I live literally right across the street from his school. If I could afford to send him to a private school I would, but I can't.

The kids are allowed to play outside before lining up. Many students do. There's a very small playground set that couldn't possibly hold more than 5 students with about 10-15 kids on it at all times. Many kids bring basketballs to play with as well. However, these kids are all older, bigger, and meaner than the 2 kindergarten classes. (One is Spanish speaking other is English speaking.) They all loom over my son, to the point I can't see him if he tries to go off and play. The one day I allowed it, he got pushed off the playground and got his foot stuck in the twisty ladder thing. The older kids know there are no teachers out there to watch them and they get cocky with their rock throwing and pushing.

The school specifically states you can bring your kids anytime after 8:30am. School also specifically states that while they are on school grounds, our child(ren)'s safety and education is their number 1 priority. And yet they do nothing about the morning madness.

Lately I have been taking my kid later and later. My son has already told me he doesnt like waiting in the line because he gets pushed and shoved. He dreads going half the time. He likes school but tells me "don't make me line up please." I don't want to be the over bearing, over protective mother, but I also don't want my son to have to get stitches or have a broken bone.