RHU Discussion: Fair To Be Fired For Rude Facebook Comments?

Long time reader, first time poster. Call me Trucker Bitch since that's what I do. 

I'm actually not in retail, though I did several years as a cook in my parents' resturant before I started driving big rigs.  I may sent in some funny stories about that time sometime in the future (like the girl who must have been the dumbest server in the universe), but first I wanted to post a question (or maybe more of a discussion) to all of RHU.

I was reading an online news article about a retail slave being fired for making online comments outside of work.  This is the news article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/10/16/calgary-airdrie-woman-website-comment.html

The basic information is that a young teen committed suicide because of cyberbullying.  As you might expect there are a great many memorial pages and walls set up online in her memory.  On one of these pages, an anonymous post was left that said (according to the article) "It's about time this bitch died".  Another reader of the page decided to do something about such a cruel poster.  She discouvered the identity of the poster as well as who he worked for.  She contacted the employer (a Mr. Big and Tall store in Toronto ON, Canada) about the retail slave's post.

The Mr. Big and Tall store promply fired the slave.

So my question to RHU is this: Was this a proper thing for the owners and managers of the store to do? Or is this a case of a retail slave being wronged?

--Trucker Bitch

 

 

 

Comments

[pennyslut<33]

Most places warn against social profile misconduct. I think its a shady thing to do, but if his place of work is displayed, he could be "representing the company". I don't think it is that out of line. If, however, the person did not list his place of work, I think it would be inappropriate to fire him/difficult to contact his boss.

[Jim]

Tough question. But I'm going to have to go with the employer on this one. I mean, would you like to work with this uncaring, UN-empathetic, misogynist douchenozzle?

[Nic]

I wish stuff like this happened more. It would teach people how to interact with others.

[trekkiebabe]

As someone who's been bullied and hates it, I think they did the right thing. People need to realize that words/actions like that are wrong and extremely hurtful, good for the store to fire him!

[LubeDude]

Where I work we have a Code of Conduct that we read and sign when hired. Something like this would definitely be cause for getting my ass fired whether it happened inside or outside of work. Asswipes like this guy perhaps believe they can anonymously post their incredibly clever and funny comments just for the shock value. I have no problem watching them get outed and called to account for their unacceptable behaviour.

[Pamela]

They were totally in the right. He posted on a facebook page so it wasn't really anonymous and people like that (whether they were just stirring the pot or not, he claims he was) need to pay for their actions. People like him were the reason Amanda Todd's suicide and if it helps prevent him from saying something to someone teetering on the edge in future and pushing them over then it's a good thing. People need to learn that it's not okay to act like that. And this hits home cuz she was local to me and I was bullied too

[Zmidponk]

Jim said:

'Tough question. But I'm going to have to go with the employer on this one. I mean, would you like to work with this uncaring, UN-empathetic, misogynist douchenozzle?'

No, but there you get into the realms of an employer having the right to dictate what you can or can't do, even if you're not on the clock. Would you find that acceptable?

[Nocturnesthesia]

Bullshit. If he didn't use a company account or computer, and didn't even list his work on his profile, it shouldn't matter. Nothing he did was even illegal.

[The Last Archimedean]

Where I work we're [unofficially] not allowed to use social media like Facebook. MySpace or Twitter at all. Officially, we have to sign an agreement that if we do we won't do anything to embarrass the company. Which translates to not making any comments that can be construed as controversial at all. You can post pictures of your kids and comment on sports but if you take any sort of a position on any sort of actual issue you've "violated the agreement" and are fired. Not much you can do because you signed it in order to be employed.

I'm not on FB/MS/Twitter, haven't been for a while, so it doesn't bother me.

[DrugStore Diva]

Since he posted anonymously (coward) and the post did not point back to him and his employer, that woman went out of her way to bully the poster back, the exact thing she was trying to stop by supporting Amanda Todd. While the statement was out of place, it's not right to bully in order to stop bullying.

[Soft Ice Girl]

Of course his action was outrageous and he deserves to have his windows smashed every day and I hope that his friends and neighbours find out about what he did and terminate any contact.
BUT: It is none of his employer´s business. How did the employer even find out about his post? I hope that the employer gets sued about this. In Germany, this is absolutely illegal.

[Katia]

I think the employer had a valid reason to fire him. Although the douche posted anonymously, people found out who he is and where he works. The employer acted quickly to make sure that customers didn't boycott their business because of that comment at a time when bullying is becoming a very public issue. In fact, this let's the employer probably got more sales because people will perceive that the employer is anti bullying.

For all we know his boss or his family members were at some point bullied, and it hit too close for comfort.

[Damn Yankee]

If he admitted he posted it, then I think yes, it's grounds for termination, if they have social media guidelines in place (as most employers do). It's especially justified if he posted it under his own name, with the company he works for easily identified in his profile. However, if it was anonymous, and he didn't admit to it, then there's possible doubt that it wasn't him at all.

With the public reaction, I imagine the company dotted their I's and crossed their T's.

[Ambassador Sparkle]

100% behind the employer on this one.

I wouldn't want that man representing my store, not at all.

[HeavyP]

After researching a bit, Canada apparently doesn't have "at will" employment laws as does most of the United States, so the employee could have grounds to sue.

Down here, yeah, you could be fired for that in a heartbeat, but Canada appears to still follow a "just cause" doctrine.

[CountsALot]

I guess you could argue that the company doesn't want someone like that wrongly presenting their values. I'm not sure it's grounds for termination, a strong word and a slap on the wrist, perhaps. I definitely don't agree with his comments, I'm just not sure it was his employer's place to "teach him a lesson" I guess.

[Pamela]

It wasn't anonymous, it was on facebook, and I certainly wouldn't want to shop at a place where a man in his mid thirties would post on a MEMORIAL page for a 15 year old girl who was tormented, bullied, and harassed into killing herself that he was "glad the bitch was dead." ESPECIALLY when he had no connection to this in any way. He did not know her, he had never met her or talked to her or interacted with her in any way. A grown man should know better than to do something like that and has to take responsibility for his actions. I think the employer was in the right because this man really made the whole company look horrible by association. Who bullies a 15 year old girl even in death? Not someone any company would want representing them. Not anyone who represents any company I would ever do business with. I don't want to support anyone like that. I'm local to where poor Amanda Todd was from and I think the company was right, and he's lucky he didn't get arrested because the cops are going after people who are writing things like that on her memorial pages now. And I think it's great. No one should get away with that. The Todd family lost their daughter because of people like him and they can't even have any peace to mourn because people are STILL bullying her even though she's dead. It's sick.

[CashierBtch]

I'm sure its not his first offense and the store probably had just had enough of his douche baggery on and off the clock. They probably wouldn't fire for the one incident, unless its against their own policy. If his trolling were an on going issue, than I could see him being terminated.

[WMDKitty]

I'm kinda torn on this one. On the one hand, douchebaggery, misogyny, and the like -- online or off -- needs to have serious IRL consequences. On the other hand, he had every right to express his opinion, however distasteful we might find it. I think, in light of the recent bullying deaths, that the employer did the wrong thing, but with good intentions.

[Hopea]

Perhaps not a legally right thing to do.
But morally? Hell yeah.

[Roxas Saix]

I apologize, but if I ever seen my employee say something like this, on the clock or not, I'd have to let them go. Could I truly trust someone that cruel? Nope. They were most likely lazy and/or was a thief anyways, so it was most likely the final strike against them.

[shevrolet]

I don't think it was his employer's place to fire him, but I'm sure they felt they didn't have a choice. I would like to see the police and social media websites do more about behaviour like this. It is everyone's job to report behaviour like this when we see it.

[Ted the Flayer]

I don't think they should have involved his livelihood in this instance. I have been the victim of workplace bullying before, and this is what this is. Now, if they had, say, given the guy's phone number to PLA or something, that's fair game.

[Slave of Arch]

I'm agreeing with Hopea here.

Since it seems the person who reported him had to do some digging, it sounds like he wasn't announcing who he was or who he worked for.
At least where I work, that would technically mean we couldn't be reprimanded - since we aren't stating that we work for them.
So legally, I'm not sure they had a right to fire him...but morally, he deserved it.

[Skittles]

While he might be despicable in his own time that is exactly what it is HIS OWN TIME. Bullshit like this is what crosses the line between being employed and owned. If I'm not able to do whatever I want to do in my personal time than I am not a free person. People need to stand up against this kind of crap.

[NomNom]

If he did post anonymously - by making another facebook account perhaps - and the person who outed him had to do some digging, then that isn't posting as a representative of his company. Sorry, but it isn't. If the average person with no effort could have figured out who he worked for then, yes maybe.

As for the cops going after people posting shit like this on her memorial and that being a good thing? Holy shit, that is TERRIFYING. Do you seriously want cops arresting you because someone disagreed with what you posted online? That's a very slippery slope right there. But that's cool in Canada, I guess.

[Cytherea]

Honestly, I think that is ridiculous. I'm in agreement with NomNom here. Was it an asshole thing to do? Sure. But it was anonymous, so he wasn't even trying to represent himself, let alone his company, and what right does the company have to fire him based on something that he did from the privacy of his own home, not on company time, that had nothing to do with work, and wasn't illegal?

[TheCheerfulTreeRat]

Although I'm not a fan of his, he carried out a legal act which his employers either disagreed with or were embarrassed about. And got fired for it.

So no, not happy about that. I'm on a site where a whole bunch of people have pseudonyms because they're scared of the consequences if their employer sees them, legally, posting.

I'm more bothered about High and Mighty's action than Christine Claveau's. BUT... She outed him to his employer because she had no legal recourse, in the hope that a bit of shit stirring would get him in the shit. And it worked.

No-one's coming out smelling of roses, the poor girl who offed herself is becoming a secondary issue - I think this happened, in part, because a Troll is an easier target than the root causes of the girls death.

[Trucker Bitch]

Thank you to all who replied. I do agree that this is a bit of a slippery slope. I can see why the company fired him, since they certainly don't want to be connected to such a person, but there is the fact that this was done off shift.

Certainly no simple answer to this.

[CharlieWhiskyMike]

When the man post this terrible thing he was a stupid cowardish a....ole, but no injustice legitimates another injustice. What Christina Claveau did wash´t right in my opinion and when an employer fires an employee about an anonymous post after denunciation where will it stop.
Maybe this case will a precedent for firing employees over posts that are not so offending. Where will it stop.
Christine Claveau could give message about that post to the next in laws from amanda todd or to the founder of the site (i´m reading in the article that she didn't found the site or did i read wrong?) but this denunciation was injustice.

[TheSquirrel]

I have zero sympathy for a grown man who thinks it's 'funny' to leave a little message like that on a teenager's memorial page where her friends and parents could see it.

The guy should've been outed on FB and the community there would've ripped him a new one--then his bosses could fire him for being an inhuman monster.

I cringe to think at the idea that employers could start to dictate what you do on your personal time. I'm thinking of Ken Cosgrove on Mad Men, when his bosses found out he was writing and publishing science fiction stories outside of work, they told him to stop. His job was supposed to be the fulfilling element in his life, not his creative hobby. I think a lot of us have something going on that some stiff in a suit wouldn't find acceptable.

[Kryss LaBryn]

Absolutely he deserved to be fired.

There is this concept that the military has, called "Conduct unbecoming..." which means that while, yeah, you can do what you like on your own time so long as it isn't illegal, if you do something like that that makes the organization look bad for being associated with you, you are outta there. No second chances.

If the RCMP still had that then their reputation would still be excellent up here; instead it's been taking a beating every few months because some cop pulls some shit that makes everyone there look bad. Doesn't matter if it was on his own time; as soon as you hear that they were a cop, that's what you remember. That a *cop* did this stupid thing, whatever it was.

Also, yeah, I suppose it's kind of a slippery slope, but bullying has been with us forever because all too often (even usually, back when I was in school) there are absolutely no consequences for the bully whatsoever. If you're *lucky* a teacher will talk to them and tell them to stop it; what happens next is usually that the bully says they didn't do it, or that they did/said something much less painful, and then the teacher tells the victim to not be so sensitive. And that's it.

There's a young man who was involved in the Vancouver riots last Stanley Cup, who was caught on camera setting a police car on fire. And now the "poor" guy is shocked--shocked-- that he might lose his place on the swimming team and not be able to compete (I think it was internationally but I'm not positive), and he might also lose his scholarships over it.

Dude, you SET A COP CAR ON FIRE. Did you honestly think no one would care? That riots are a special, magical time where nothing matters? What happens in a Stanley Cup riot stays in the Stanley Cup riot?

This guy here wasn't just expressing an unpopular or ill-informed viewpoint. He actively went out of his way to find the memorial page of a teenage girl who had been bullied for so long and so much that she literally couldn't see any way out of it, who thought being dead was preferable to coping with even just one single more day of her life-- and then shat all over it. All over her memory, and her family, and her friends.

"LOL I told her!!"

He absolutely deserved to get fired and I hope he has a long, hard struggle to find another job, because everyone knows his name and what he did, and what a pathetic little shit he really is.

/Fair disclosure: One of my best friends in high school, after years of being bullied, killed himself. All the bullies who had made his life absolutely miserable for the past ten years or so came to the memorial and sat around crying and saying, "He was such a good guy! We liked him so much!" Yeah, that's why you always thought it was hilarious to dump your drink on his head? Fuck off.

[SKB]

There are two parts to this story that are important here.

1) He was off the clock, anonymous, and in no way representing the company when he said this.

2) The person who outed him had to do some serious cyber digging to find out his identity and employer, and then chose to contact said employer to get him in trouble.

While what he said was abhorrent-- absolutely despicable-- he had every right to say it without fear of termination. Look, I'm someone who was relentlessly bullied in school as a child. When I was a kid, neighborhood bullies tried to choke my brother to see if he would really turn blue when deprived of air. I think bullies should be hung and quartered and castrated and burned to a crisp. But the person who went out of their way to look up this guy's personal info and tattle to his employer was a bully, too.

I really think it's despicable that people think they have a right to get someone fired because they think that person is a jerk. Especially if the cops were coming after people for trolling the page, was getting him fired too really necessary? Just, ugh. This whole situation makes me sick to my stomach for humanity.

[Retired from Hell]

Call me Retired from Hell

Many employers have a policy against workers posting anything derogatory about them online, which I assume is why everyone here uses pseudonyms for themselves and their particular Hell. They have a point. But however heinous this man's post was -- and it was -- I believe it was (1) an invasion of his private life, and (2) an unwarranted firing for them to terminate him over it. A talking-to would have been more appropriate, along the lines of "Now that we know you're a complete sociopath, we'll be keeping a closer eye on you." He's not a military officer, so the 'conduct unbecoming' analogy doesn't fly.