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Spritzy

Threaten, Intimidate, (empty) Promise, Spy....actually instructing management to do that just makes me feel sick. Things like that make for a untrustful and harmful work environment and gives them a power trip to do whatever they want.

The Last Archimedean

If Wal-Mart was REALLY smart, they'd openly encourage the employees to unionize and have their shift supervisors be the union leaders, with the managers working closely with the shift supervisors to, um, work with the union to find a mutually beneficial solotion for all. You never win by fighting these things, but you can guide them in a direction you like...

Skittles

@The Last Archimedean most if not all unions do not allow management at any level into union membership. Also if they did that and it was discovered the resulting lawsuit and fines would be monumental. To top that off unions can censor people who spy for management or try to bend the union to managements way of thinking. Censoring essentially means that person is no long part of the union and will not be backed by the union in any way.

This story keeps getting more awesome. What I really hope happens is that Walmart ends up being unionized and more retail workers start following suit. Just think of how amazing it would be if retail workers didn't have to put up with dehumanizing from management and crusties, because there was a union to back them up. What about retail workers having real benefits and sick days that they could take when they needed them without fear of losing their jobs?

The Last Archimedean

I don't know about Wal-Mart but when I worked for a [different] giant retail store a shift supervisor wasn't "management", it was an hourly worker who was thought more reliable than the other ones and got 25 cents per hour more to try and keep their fellow hourly workers from slacking off too much. Maybe things have changed.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the whole idea of a union was to work WITH management to make positive changes in the working environment, not to always be engaged in a fight. It does take two to tango, but if management is willing to work with the union to implement changes that benefit all and make the company stronger, why should their ideas be rejected merely because a manager instead of a worker thought of it? After all, if the company starts floundering and goes bankrupt, no one wins. [Not that Wal-Mart is going to go bankrupt, but the point is that it's a lot better for the company to be unified and work on selling their products to customers rather than have a ton of useless infighting between management and the union -- ideally, they'd find a way to work together that makes everyone happy.]

And yes, it would be lovely if this became a trend and big retailers were all unionized so workers' rights, with the help of understanding and competent management working WITH the union, were protected and the companies strengthened by the mutually beneficial exchange of ideas between the union and management.

Skittles

@TLA the point of the union is to make workers jobs better and safer while protecting their rights. From my experience management rarely has that in mind. I work at a non-profit for instance and numerous times have had to get involved with the union rep to save peoples jobs. They people being fired had followed managements instructions and were being fired for the results of following management instructions. The other issue with management being involved directly with the union is trying to make side deals to favorite workers and give them perks for doing what management wants at the expense of their co-workers. There is a time and a place for union and management to sit down and negotiate things and that is when they are putting the contract together or resolving a complaint. You also need to keep in mind that having management in a union meeting could intimidate workers, as management can and will single people out to punish if they know they are causing 'issues' like making sure workers are getting their breaks when they should. To be fair not all companies are like this and idealy management and union have an amicable relationship. The real problem is that quite often people who get into low level management have power issues and feel like they should be able to issue commands regardless of whether it puts employees at risk or dehumanizes them. sorry my reply might be a little confused I am tired lately.

The Last Archimedean

Your reply didn't seem confused at all.

There are always a few idiots, among both workers and managers, who spoil it for the rest of the people by acting like arseholes [for workers, being a lazy bastard, and for low level managers, going on a useless power trip.] Proper discipline by high-level management nips this in the bud, but if unchecked it can cause the problems you describe.

Things work best for the company when top executives have brains enough to cooperate with the workers to make the company's operations run smoothly. I don't know in the specific case of Wal-Mart whether the executives have a collective brain that works or not, but for everyone's sake I hope they do.

I'm lucky enough to work at the moment for a company that does have the management cooperate with the workers to the point where we haven't even bothered trying to unionize because we already have good, clear lines of communication with management and don't need a union to guard our rights. Sure, there's the occasional bad apple, but higher-level management overrules any dumb decisions made by idiotic low level managers before it becomes a big problem.

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