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CSRawr Has A Story And A Question

Jason derpCSRawr here. I'm about ready to choke a bitch. I have two coworkers who work day shift (I work graveyard, generally showing up 10-13 minutes prior to the start of my shift so I can get stuff going and be ready at midnight), and I'm there for an hour into their shift. One, let's call her MamaToBe, is super awesome about showing up long enough before her shift start to get her systems pulled up and ready to go. The other one, let's call him Lackadaisical Derp, tends to show up 1-3 minutes before his shift starts. Now, this wouldn't be so bad if he didn't take almost ten minutes to pull up his systems and get signed into the phone system.

Most nights/mornings, we have two supervisors for the work-at-home agents. I'm one of them, the other one is a sweetheart of a lady who only works four nights a week compared to my five (hereafter referred to as Awesome Granny). We start getting hammered around 6:30 AM to 7 AM with customers calling the WAH agents, and they start asking questions more and more then, regardless of supervisor numbers. Once we start getting hammered, we need all hands on deck to monitor the chatrooms and the phone lines.

So, like a good little RHUer, I've started documenting when Lackadaisical Derp shows up and when he is available on the phones. What really dug his grave is that I talked to him earlier today over IM, after I had gotten home from running errands after work, as I had meant to talk to him after I clocked out, in private, but he was on a call.

Convo goes like this:

Lackadaisical Derp: Was there something you wanted to say to me before you left?

CSRawr: Yeah. Try to get to work sooner than one or two minutes before your shift starts.

Lackadaisical Derp: Why do you say that?

CSRawr: Because it takes a few minutes to get everything pulled up, and it's not fair to MamaToBe or Awesome Granny or myself if we're the only ones covering things, and because we're all expected to be ready to go at the start of our shift.

Lackadaisical Derp: Honestly I'm expected to get on at 7 so I'm going to do that

Lackadaisical Derp: Today it took me longer than that to get on upc because the system was insanely slow

(Note, UPC is our phone system. It's slow for ALL Of us.)

Lackadaisical Derp: But on most days when I would come in after (former coworker who went to Basic Training for the Marines) and MamaToBe, I would still get on upc before either of them

Lackadaisical Derp: But I told the people I was sitting with that I couldnt get on because of the system

CSRawr: Lackadaisical Derp, I've been keeping track of times.

Lackadaisical Derp: I also didn't have a spot because we were full
Freddy shoot me
Lackadaisical Derp: I dont care if you keep track of times honestly

Lackadaisical Derp: I come in when I'm required to

Lackadaisical Derp: I've never been late

CSRawr: I'm going to give you some advice I got years ago. If you show up early, you're on time, but if you show up on time, you're late.

Lackadaisical Derp: And that doesnt mean much to me

Lackadaisical Derp: I'm going to be punctual and arrive exactly on time

Lackadaisical Derp: As I always have

CSRawr: Fine.

Lackadaisical Derp: The call flow isnt even at bad early in the morning

CSRawr: I've said my piece and that's that.

Lackadaisical Derp: peace*

Lackadaisical Derp: If I'm consistantly coming in after my shift starts then there is a problem

Lackadaisical Derp: But I usually always arrive 1-3 minutes before it starts

Lackadaisical Derp: If you have any issue go to a supervisor but I'm always here on time and punctual is important to me

Lackadaisical Derp: So I prefer arriving right on time

CSRawr: Maybe I will go to a supervisor.

Lackadaisical Derp: I encourage you to

So, RHU, I have documentation of the times. I've basically been told to go ahead and talk to a supervisor by Lacidasical Derp. Think I should document a couple more days and then take it to the supervisor? Or should I just go ahead and do it right away like I initially planned?

Comments

photoslave

So the idiot not only had the chutzpah to tell you that he is going to continue to waste time instead of being a good employee, he actually tried to correct the spelling of a word that was correctly used. And told you he didn't care that you were building up evidence to hand in to a supervisor. I think the next piece of advice you give him should be this: "I know you don't two shits about being a good employee so why don't you just quit before your ass is fired."

Hellgreens Slave

OMG I'm DYING of laughter. If your only complaint about this employee is that he shows up ON TIME & DOES HIS WORK then damn when can I hire him??? May I give you some advice someone once gave me: showing up early & working off the clock is actually illegal since employees are to be paid for the time they're working. Legally you cannot require someone to come in early, set up for work off the clock even though they showed up on time. When a doctor preps for surgery he's getting paid - he doesn't do that for free so why would your employee work off the clock?!

Personally, I think you should get over yourself & stop throwing stones at a good employee. Just because YOU show up insanely early for a shift doesn't mean others have to.. and he shows up on time - not late - so get over it.

CSRawr

As I've said elsewhere, I have no problem with him doing his job. At our call center, we are encouraged to clock in early to pull up our systems, and are paid for doing so, which means, *gasp* it's not off the clock.

It takes anywhere from 5-7 minutes to get everything pulled up and running most days. And if he'd get there earlier, he'd have a seat. So no, HS, I am not throwing stones at a good employee. Yes, he may do a good job, but he knows the systems take a bit to pull up, and that once people start coming in after 6 AM, they come in droves, so it really is better to get in earlier than 3 minutes before shift start.

Our supervisors expect us to be ready to go on the hour. It's the same across all the shifts. MamaToBe, Awesome Granny, and the other WAH Sups, myself included, are all expected to be ready to go at the hour our respective shifts start. Especially now that we're in the holiday shopping season.

Also, Awesome Granny shows up 20 minutes before the start of shift, because she also works on answering customer e-mails to earn a bit of extra money, and to help out the overnight tier 2 agents since we tend to get figuratively shat on.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to work on unwinding, write some more on my NaNoWriMo piece, and try to calm down enough that I can sleep before Cyber Monday hell.

Rain

He's doing nothing wrong. You need to mind your own business because you are not a supervisor. If they want him in before his shift starts, a supervisor will tell him that. You are going to get labeled a troublemaker for doing this. For your own sake, stay out of it!

Headset Hellion

I also think you need to get over yourself. That bullshit of "if you're on time, you're late," ended for me the day I got out of the Navy. I show up, on time, based on the schedule given to me by my employer. If you want to get yourself all stressed out about those extra three minutes, have fun. That shit is not for me.

Ixiona

I work in a call centre and to be on time you have to be signed on and ready to take calls. If you're not ready to take calls when you're shift starts you're late. Csrawr has made it clear that he's not doing this and so he's late. So to those saying he's not doing anything wrong he is

Larry Berry

I was going to say that if it takes time to get things pulled up and running, I would expect to be paid for that time.

I see that you state that indeed "we are encouraged to clock in early to pull up our systems, and are paid for doing so, which means, it's not off the clock"

Now I would say that you are paid for that time, and it is expected for you to be earlier than actually scheduled to do so, then maybe they need to change the way they do scheduled time. If you need to be up and running by 7, but are expected to come in early to be up and running by that time..... Then be scheduled at 6:50 for set up, and scheduled to be online by 7.

If I were scheduled for 7, I would not consider myself late for starting work at 7. If you want me to be working before 7 then schedule me to set up before 7, and to be online by 7.

Eviscerator

I have to side with Derp here. Anything to do with signing in and bring up the system is work, and if his work is not scheduled to begin until seven, then there's really no recourse other than to alter the schedule to reflect the time it takes to bring your systems online.

Diane

First off, apparently you're only asking him to show up five minutes earlier than he currently does. Heck, once you asked me I'd do it just to maintain peace in the workplace. It's not like you're telling him to be there an hour early.

Second - well, the debate in this thread is fine, but that's really what supervisors are for. You have the documentation. Kick it upstairs. That's what upstairs is overpaid for. If you're right, they'll agree with you. If not, they won't. Either way, the issue is resolved.

Karebear

I have to agree, if they want you to be up by the time you are suppose to start, and it takes time to do that, then they should rework the schedule. I get that you can clock in early, but...can you leave early then? If I am suppose to be working a full 8 hour shift, I am not going to work 8 hours and 15 minutes, or whatever.

If they want to punish someone for being there, on time, all the time, then I think your employer may have issues. I'd have to agree, stay out of it.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

Ambassador Sparkle

I'm inclined to agree with everybody here.

LD is right; he's down for seven, and there's nothing wrong with strolling in at 6:57 and beginning his startup process. He's not late, and there's no reason to berate him for coming in when he's asked to.

He could, however, stick out a little more, show some pride in his job, and say "okay, so it takes me X amount of time to be logged in and good to go; if I'm expected to work at seven, I should arrive Y minutes early to prepare for work." That's the kind of attitude that gets (in a good workplace) people promotions. But if he's happy being a mediocre employee, not much you can do there.

Diane is right: approach your boss and say "LD here [i]is[/i] arriving on time; however, it would make things a bit easier on all of us if you could ask him to try and pull into the station a few minutes before he's scheduled"

Perky

It sounds like one of those unwritten rules in every job. My workplace is like that. the schedule may say 9am, but it doesn't mean you clock in at 9am. It means you are expected to be at your post by 9am. You are expected to have clocked in earlier got your till or you keys and be at your spot by 9am. So if you're scheduled for 9am and you clock in at 9am instead of 8:50am you're considered late. It's not written down, you won't be written up for being late, but you will also be pass over for training, raises and/or promotions.

CSRawr

It is one of those unwritten rules. We're encouraged to show up early, punch in early, get our stuff up and ready to go, and then if there's time before we need to be on the phones, then we can socialize while we do other non-phone work. We have people showing up from about 4:45 AM onward, and throughout the day.

The Last Archimedean

Submit what you have to a supervisor, and let them make the call. That's what they're paid to do.

CoG

I say turn in your evidence. You tried to reason with him, and maybe he just isn't getting it that it's an unwritten rule. While I agree that maybe he should be scheduled earlier, he would be getting paid if he just clocked in earlier. And perhaps, if he isn't talking advice from you, he might be willing to take it from someone who has a choke-hold on his paycheck. Just take your evidence to the higher-ups, explain that you tried talking to him and that his actions make it that much harder for everyone else to do their jobs correctly. Then let them deal with him.

danny

I think LD is right, he is there when scheduled. I f he is wanted there earlier the schedule should reflect it.

Zyffyr

I'm going to go one step beyond "turn in your evidence and then drop it" and go straight to "just drop it".

Why? If your system was set up in a competent manner, it records when people log into the system, when they start taking calls, etc...

In other words, the people above you already have all of the evidence as to what he is doing. If they had a problem with it they would have ALREADY talked to him.

MN_ManuSlave

I have always worked in places where your "scheduled" shift start has always meant, be ready, at your post, with supplies or resources, ready to help a customer at said start time.

Zyffyr has a point, your time clock program should be doing the documenting, though, not you.

On the one hand, as a senior employee to Derp, you would be within your rights to go to a supervisor, but NOT on the pretext of "but Derp isn't in as early as us, its not right/ fair/ etc"...you would have to broach it as "We are having some difficulties at shift turnover, can we look at some solutions?" (I've been a grunt and a sup, and I can tell you, if your corporate is anything like any other corporate, they love words like 'solutions', 'difficulties', and all the other HR bs).

One thing I didn't see mentioned in the other comments (and if I missed it, I apologize) is that your contacting Derp outside of work, via a chat program - which is still in this day and age considered an unprofessional medium - may work against you. That, more than anything else (documenting, taking this to heart as a non-sup) may get you in hot water and NOT him.

So think hard, sleep on it, then do what you feel you need to do to perform well at work.

v

If 10-15 minutes prep time is required all workers should be scheduled and *paid* to do it. Good on 'just on time guy' for not working for free.

Also 'choke a bitch'? Seriously?

Hellgreens Slave

If this is seriously your biggest complaint about a co-worker then damn I'd like you to work with some of my current & ex-co-workers/employees.. they'd give you some real complaints.. from the kid that talks about his personal life all day long, the cashier that uses her allergies as an excuse to just stand around, the stockboy that would take 20 minute naps with on the clock 4 times a shift, the associate that would show up drunk, get sent home, only to show back up more drunk 3 hours later asking to borrow money, the ones that stole merchandise from the store, money from the registers and other worker's personal belongings out of their lockers, the ones that show up 10 minutes LATE every shift, or the sexist 50yr old guy that fought with every female customer & ignored me for being a female all while making comments about the 12 yr old girls that came in & how he hates women & that women don't belong in the workplace and would call female customers very nasty names & would give them a hard time when they went to pay at his register.. and then sued us after he was fired and had to go to court having to listen to him again call you nasty names just because you were born a female. And you think someone coming in on time is annoying? SMFH.

Ambassador Sparkle

V, HellgreensSlave, the issue here is that for Call Center employees (as far as I know, I interviewed with a couple and I've been reading on the Profession as it seems to be right up my alley) are judged based on "handle time", how many calls they get an hour. LD taking 10-15 minutes past when he should be handling calls slows down the entire operation. He'd still get paid for the time he was clocked in, so he wouldn't be working for free. It's a matter of having some professional pride.

CO Slave

Thanks v for pointing that out - "choke a bitch"? Really??? I missed that when I was first reading your post and already thought you were overreacting - If you're scheduled for 7 you start at 7, nothing wrong there. The supervisor can change shifts if they think things aren't running efficiently and it is up to them to monitor it. You are not their supervisor - if you have an issue, raise it with management "I think we have an issue with scheduling/shift change overs, is there a way we can resolve that" You should not raise it with someone else on the same level as you who has not done anything wrong, and you should absolutely not be documenting their hours - umm stalker?

Back to that "choke a bitch" statement - RHU how could you even let that pass moderation? I'm pretty laid back and don't let much phase me but I find that incredibly offensive, its unnecessary. Particularly considering yesterday (in Australia at least) was White Ribbon day, a day dedicated to ending violence against women, I find this incredibly insensitive.

Pamela

i'm with everyone else here, its not your place to document his hours, and contact him outside work, to tell him that showing up for work 3 minutes early is not good enough. If the people upstairs had an issue with it they would schedule his shift to start 15 minutes earlier. If it was me, i wouldnt be happy having to work an extra 15 minutes a day. Plus you dont know that he doesnt have some other comittment that he has to take care of before work. Its not always a case of just getting there earlier. Ive never heard the saying if you're 10 minutes early you're on time and if you're on time your late, but to me its complete rubbish. If you're scheduled to start your shift at a certain time, that's the time you have to be there and you cant fault someone for being ON TIME. To me, you come off as an overzealous whiner who is trying to show off that you arrive early by putting yourself next to someone who doesn't show up as early as you do. Just leave it alone, if the supervisors have a problem with him then they will talk to him.

shevrolet

where I work, your start time is the time you should be on the floor fully prepared to serve customers. it sounds to me like he should be there and logged on by the time his shift time starts, but that doesn't mean you need to make it your problem. If it's legitimately causing you an issue, I would first clarify what is expected of each of you with a supervisor. maybe don't out your coworker directly? ask what time is appropriate for getting to work considering how long it takes to log in. just tell them that you were seeing/hearing different things from different people and want to make sure that everyone is on the same page.

Bluja000

I've worked at call centers, as well as other jobs that were not walk in and you're setup already. Lots of jobs require that you do things to prepare for dealing with the customers, such as counting money, turning computers/programs on, etc. However, I've also worked in places that did the 15 minute time thing (which is now illegal), paying you in 15 minute increments instead of per minute. They expected us to clock in up to 7 minutes early, but we weren't paid for that extra 7 minutes because it was less than half of a 15 minute pay increment. In my last job, it was changed to the per-minute method, so it's fine no matter how early you clock in.

However, your fellow co-worker is correct. He's scheduled to work at 7(am?) and appears to be consistently on time. If he's immediately setting up his station to prepare for calls, and not delaying by pulling up extra programs and such, then he's doing his job. If he's pulling up critical programs first and taking calls as soon as possible, then he's within his rights. IF, however, he's delaying by pulling up non-critical programs, or not accepting a call when those critical programs are up and ready, then he's in the wrong, and a supervisor should be monitoring him.

More than likely, the computes are setup so that the management can see what he's doing ON the computer. If they monitor his activity during the first minutes of his shift, this will help them determine if he's actually doing what he's being paid to do. They can then provide visible proof to him if they need to.

But honestly, sounds like you are not in the right, and I would suggest that you bring it up to your IMMEDIATE supervisor, and let them use the information as they decide. If, that is, you do decide to act on any of this and go to someone. I wouldn't, it's not worth it, in my opinion.

Box Office Wench

"If you're early you're on time, if you're on time you're late." Agree 100%. If you aren't at your place and READY TO GO by the time your shift starts, then the message that sends to me is that you would rather screw over your coworkers during the rush than take a few minutes to make sure you're prepared to be part of the team.

photoslave

At everyone saying "Oh he doesn't need to be there early. He'd have to work for free." NO. Most jobs require you to be ready when your shift starts. That means getting there early enough to prepare. You clock in then, not after you prepare. The portrait studio I worked at required openers to be there at least 20 minutes early. Why? Because we had a lot to do before opening. We had to boot up the main computer and register first. Then the camera room and enhancing computers. Then we had to set up the camera (which took a while). Then we had to do a test shoot to make sure the camera was in order. Then we had to count the register. Also had to turn on the tv and make sure the dvd was ready to go for the kiddies. All of that had to be done in 15 minutes. And if the person the night before didn't print up the consultations, you had to do that, too.

Pamela

i think the difference is that no supervisor has told him he is required to be there early. It isn't the supervisors taking issue with this, its just another employee. and it isn't her place, it is only the supervisors job to talk to him if it is an issue. Its fine if a job requires that, but its up to the supervisors or management to make that clear, not his co-workers. And as long as he has not been told that he has to be there early, then he is not doing anything wrong by showing up 3 minutes early for his shift instead of 20.

Larry Berry

"If you aren't at your place and READY TO GO by the time your shift starts"

"Most jobs require you to be ready when your shift starts."

"your start time is the time you should be on the floor fully prepared to serve customers"

I think some people are missing the point that he is there and ready to work at the point his shift starts. There is just other work that they have to do, before taking the actual calls. Like a place that I used to work that TRIED to insist that the cashiers needed to come in 15 minutes before their shift to watch the manager count the drawers. It wasn't exactly the same as this situation as they didn't expect them to clock in until their scheduled time, but to do the work before clocking in (it also didn't last very long, as A. the cashiers mostly refused, and B. the problems they were having that caused them to try that rule turned out to be caused by a manager who was always miscounting the drawers).

If a place told me "you're scheduled to come in at 7...... But before you start at 7, you need to clean the grill, unload the truck, set up the trays, fill the condiments....." I'd say, "so then I'm scheduled to come in at 6:30 and am expected to be cooking by 7"

Pamela

yeah, exactly larry. he is there before his shift starts, and thats how it should be.

grmrsan

I'm with the drop it people, you may have a very valid complaint, but if you are not his supervisor, and he is actually showing up at his appointed time, then it is not your place to fix it. Yes, he is a lazy, inconsiderate bum, but he is someone else's problem, and complaining officially to a manager about it will only make you look like a tattletail. Management already has his times, if they want to deal with it they will. You just continue doing a fantastic job, and maybe you will be promoted while he stays stuck at his "good enough" dead end.

The Last Archimedean

My work starts at 7 a.m.

That doesn't mean I swipe my card at the building's entrance at 7 a.m.

It means I do that at around 6:50, then prep my work area, get everything ready to go, so that at 7 a.m. sharp I can actually begin doing the job I'm getting paid for. And I don't have a problem with it because I'm a responsible worker.

Larry Berry

"where I work, your start time is the time you should be on the floor fully prepared to serve customers"

True, but if you're scheduled to start at 7 and you come in a few minutes early and are clocked in at 7, but before they want you to serve customers, they want you to set up the drink stations, set up displays, clean the area and mop the floor, can they complain that you weren't serving customers at 7 (when you were scheduled) but were instead doing the other work...... Or should they instead schedule you for 6:30 or 6:45 to get that done by 7, if they want you serving customers at 7?

Dhamp

You said it yourself CSRawr.

It's an unwritten rule, and as people here are so quick to point out when it's in the poster's favour, unwritten rules are legally unenforceable.

LD is an inconsiderate prick, but reporting him will only serve to make you look bad too.

Not following the unwritten rules will get you passed over for raises and promotion, but so will being a busy body.

Queer Geek

Every company is different. I agree with everyone that your coworker is working his scheduled shift but I would verify with your supervisor exactly what the policies are concerning employees being considered tardy by the company.

Don't lodge the complaint yet until you have the full details. If the company considers being late not having the system up within the seven minute time frame, then I would let your supervisor know but if they looking at tardiness based upon their scheduled shift, I would let it go.

Find out first before proceeding to the next step.

Minty

I see a lot of people saying that he isn't doing anything incorrect by arriving at his scheduled start time, but if you work at a restaurant and show up on time but out of uniform and unable to serve customers yet, does that mean you are on time?
No.
This is the call-center equivalent of showing up without your uniform, and most state this on their employment agreement, with the notation that 10-15 minutes before shift is expected and paid. The 'scheduled start time' is just that, the time you must be ready and set up to serve customers. If you aren't ready to serve yet, you're late.

JamieC

If he's paid to clock in early and its one of the unwritten rules, he should just come the extra couple minutes early. And management should write it into the written rules. The problem with changing the schedule to 10-15 minutes before when they need to be on the system, is that you get one of those annoying supervisors who then makes that the time people need to be ready to go. I once worked in a place where the shift technically started at 7am, but sometime in the past the shift started getting scheduled for 6:45 so after a little while everyone was expected to be there at 6:30.

CSRawr

As an update, MamaToBe mentioned we got more daytime PALs (what she, LD, Awesome Granny, and I do), and that they weren't pulling their weight, so SHE e-mailed OUR supervisors about it.

I suspect a meeting will be coming up shortly. Hopefully, it's one I can actually attend since the overnight shift often gets told about meetings and the like AFTER they've occurred. (We're kind of the black sheep of the company for whatever reason)

Skittles

Wow he shows up on time instead of early, which is not required but only encouraged, that is so terrible. Yeah he should totally be strung up by his nutsack and beaten. Seriously get off your high horse, so he probably won't get promoted big fucking deal.

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